Huge hog house disaster

[BalconyFarmer]

Originally Posted by Spudworth

Because no digester will pay for itself in 3 years. This manure is typically field spread where it is much more valuable for fetilizer then it will ever be for energy. Regulations are plenty tight. Human waste has more "yuk" factor and poses more problems therefore more tightly regulated. Justified or not.

Pigs and humans have similar digestive systems, which is why pigs are used extensively in gastrointestinal research. They also carry many of the same diseases we carry, so the "yuk" factor is pretty close--only 6 times worse, on a per-animal basis. And I know first-hand about field spreading pig manure, my sister's house is a mile or so away from a farm that spreads pig manure every summer, and it's almost unbearable when the wind shifts toward her house, even a month after they spread it.

I'll try to dig up the reference, but there was an article in the news a few years back that put a 3-5 year amortization period on a large-scale hog farm methane digester. They heated their barns in the winter with the waste heat from generating energy from the methane operation, so it accelerated the payback period.

[c1377]

Originally Posted by Flowerluver

It seems like prices were reasonable when there were many small producers all over the country, taking their livestock to local auctions and slaughterhouses.
Now there are very few individual producers, and the local processors.
Could it be a myth (perpetuated by big business) that there can only be decent prices and supplies if corporations raise and market the livestock, far away from much of the population?
I do understand that being a contract grower offers protection for the farmer, but couldn't the style of the facilities be different?

That is exactly right!
I can remember when Tyson came to our area and put an end to the local hog business.
They make it sound so good, but here is what the local farmers discovered in the end:
all the money saved on being 'industrial' is eaten up by ever increasing costs:
'technology investments,' freight, immunizations, and corporate pockets.
In the end the farmer makes less money, but they are tied into a contract they can't escape without loosing their farm. Before the farmer gets close to paying off their loans, they are required to invest in xyz (which doubles their loan, and keeps them paying interest rather than principal).
After a few years, farmers got wise but by then it is too late... the local infrastructure has been destroyed (and there is another sucker 2 counties down waiting for the chance to become a corporate pawn).

[Spudworth]

Originally Posted by Flowerluver

Managing the amount of manure from 3000 hogs is quite different than from 300.

Not really. 300 on every 1/4 section is the same 3000 on every 2.5 sections.

[Spudworth]

Originally Posted by BalconyFarmer

Pigs and humans have similar digestive systems, which is why pigs are used extensively in gastrointestinal research. They also carry many of the same diseases we carry, so the "yuk" factor is pretty close--only 6 times worse, on a per-animal basis. And I know first-hand about field spreading pig manure, my sister's house is a mile or so away from a farm that spreads pig manure every summer, and it's almost unbearable when the wind shifts toward her house, even a month after they spread it.

I'll try to dig up the reference, but there was an article in the news a few years back that put a 3-5 year amortization period on a large-scale hog farm methane digester. They heated their barns in the winter with the waste heat from generating energy from the methane operation, so it accelerated the payback period.

Human waste is over regulated and the digester thing is hype.

[rockpilefarmer]

Aw phooey, we eat too much meat anyway.

[Flowerluver]

It takes a whole lot more acreage to take the manure from 3000 pigs than 300.
That's one of the problems, farmers not increasing their acreage but increasing the pigs.
A hog house goes through 2.5 batches per year, so that would be manure from 7500 pigs from one house.

[Spudworth]

Even a family farmer 20 years ago would farrrow to finish 2000+.

[ovenbird]

Joel Salatin raises hogs in his grass farm operation. He lets then roam his woods to browse. They mostly live in fresh air.

I buy "fresh air pork" at my farmer's market and through the buying club.

It is not as cheap to use these methods, or as profitable for the grower, but the resulting pork is good. I enjoy it in small quantities.

My concern is that it is impossible to really do the "math" to figure which is the most cost effective way to produce pork. First, you have to factor in environmental cost of inevitable manure spills. We regularly have fish kills in creeks and streams because of manure accidents. Then, you have to figure out if there is a health impacting difference between pork raised by the two methods. Last but not least, you have to figure out the cost of tax dollars used to support hog and feed prices. It really is part of the cost, but it is separated from the cost at the cash register.

[Gardener5]

How many here have raised pigs well I have and it's not some fun fairy tale some think it is. While I don't like the hog barns there is a reason many hogs are done that way mainly due to cost. Pastured raised pork is simply going to be higher than confined pork. With the cost of grain going price of small producer raised pork will continue to go up and also most can't let hogs run loose in the woods, they will destroy a forest.

[RozieDozie]

We buy pork from a local farmer who raises a few hogs to sell and we pay more for it than mass produced meat, but measuring everything in terms of money, i.e., "can I get it cheaper", isn't the only consideration for me.

There are plenty of reasons not to buy mass produced, Big Ag meat. Modern ag meat raising practices aren't friendly to the environment, they use massive amounts of energy and aren't sustainable. The animals are treated horribly....

We buy from small farmers who treat their animals well; plenty of access to fresh air, sunshine, food, water... no overcrowding. To me, that's the way animals should be raised. We always raised a hog or two; they're great leftover recyclers, and up until the day they were slaughtered they were treated well. As Granny said, 'a hog is a thrifty animal; you can eat everything but the squeal....'