Miracle Gro "Speacially For Tomatoes"?

[Emerald]

I use some of the crushed oyster shell that was for my chickens in areas of my garden that will have the tomatoes next year, it has ended my small problem with BER.
I too am quite sensitive to chemical fertilizers to the point that I can smell them in the store even a few aisles away and get mild headaches. I can't see using a man made chemical when there are other more natural alternatives readily available now.
But I haven't really had to use too much of any kind of fertilizer the past few years... The build up of rich organic matter from leaf mold and compost and layer/lasagna beds really does show....
The most I use lately is fish emulsion and worm castings.
why I am even down to just baking soda and vinegar for cleaning stuff too-- ELBOW GREASE!

[AnnClaire]

This topic started out as a question about using MG for tomatoes.

We have two dissenting opinions of the efficacy of synthetic fertilizer and it's impact. One assertion was made that the adverse effects were more likely to be prevalent in commercial operations rather than home growers.

I respectfully disagree with this due to the 'web of life' discussed at BioOrganics. If you are depleting essential minerals and nutrients from the soil then your produce will be missing these also.

Personally, I do agree that there are times and situations in which synthetics and other chemicals are called for, but that was not the question posed, rather it was the continued application of a synthetic chemical (per dosing instructions) over the growing season. This will exhaust many minerals and nutrients from the soil, it will tie up others so that they are not available to the plants, and it will cause an imbalance in the microfauna of the soil. The same microfauna that contribute to the health of the plants.

As for BER, there are organic solutions that can be employed through amendments and soil building that are as effective as the synthetic chemical fungicides. Organic solutions are most effective when they are part of the continuous amendments so they are in the soil when needed, rather than running to the garden center when the problem is apparant.

It comes down to preventive measures or treating the symptom.

Additional information can be found here at Turf Pro which discusses the health issues of synthetic fertilizers.

Ultimately, it is up to each person, individually, to educate themselves about both sides of the issues, and then to determine their own course of action. Good luck.

[reubenT]

MG has stuff in it that kills microbes and hardens soil. Same stuff that most NPK mixes have in them.
Yep, feeds the plant short term but bad for the soil. I'm not a strict organic grower but I love real soil science. And eventually I may run completely 'organic' as I get into new stuff. we're looking at stuff like "biochar" (nothing but plain ole charcoaled wood) sounds like great stuff for stimulating microbe life and storing minerals so they don't get leached, a carbon that stays put in the soil instead of disappearing in a few years like all the other forms seem to do. Then there's modified water that's doing really good things, may try that. several other natural products are showing signs of serious benefits.
Currently the only non organic stuff we're using is nitrogen.

The nitrogen on tomatos issue has to do with too much nitrate form of nitrogen. Tomatoes are very heavy feeders when in production and need a good heavy supply of nitrogen, but it needs to be in the ammonia form. Frequently the nitrogen keeps trying to revert to nitrate form and causes problems. (Nitrate puts on leaves and ammonia for fruit growing) cool weather can do it, high ph can do it, the solution is to acidify. To get just the right acidification to hold the nitrogen in ammonia takes either test instruments, or some expirmentation, Just about any acid will do it, but not too strong. Some vinegar and laundry ammonia in water will work for a watering solution, along with some sugar to keep it from leaching out if yer soil carbon is low. Sulferic acid will work fine if it's diluted enough, but that stuff is tricky to mess with.

[Melissa569]

Hmmmmm.... I suppose I will simply stick to just feeding my soil naturally with compost tea and maybe... Lime and calcium? A woman on youtube says that she puts powdered milk in her soil for calcium, I'm kinda curious about that... For lime, should I just mix a couple slices into the soil? How often?

Also, I was thinking about getting some of that chicken manure from the hardware store, it was pretty cheap. I was just gonna mix it with soil and throw a layer of that over the top of my current soil (which is premium peat-based with added nutrients), and continue to save compost tea.

[lorna-organic]

The lime they mean is a powdered mineral (limestone). Pulverized eggshells will work. You can put some in the bottom of each planting hole.

Chicken manure compost is good stuff. When I worked in the organic community garden everybody was using steer or horse manure. One new guy joined the garden and used chicken manure compost. He grew the best garden of all.

[w8in4dave]

Some use what they call Tomato Tone .. I bought some for mine
www.espoma.com/p_consumer/tones_tomato.html - Similar

[Emerald]

You can only add lime if your gonna add the coconut. Sorry couldn't resist.. lol

[G. Gordon Gumbo]

Originally Posted by Longtail

Over the years I have found that the chem ferts alone arent advantageous in the long run, but when used with other methods such as good manures, mulches and the like plants will yield very good crops. I use them sparingly, more as a supplemental .

Bingo!


GGG

[G. Gordon Gumbo]

Originally Posted by AnnClaire

As for BER, there are organic solutions that can be employed through amendments and soil building that are as effective as the synthetic chemical fungicides.

Blossom End Rot (BER) is not a fungus nor is it caused by fungus.

However, yes there are organic sourced soil amendments that, along with other cultural practices, will greatly reduce BER.

I have had zero BER in the past three growing seasons and generally grow about 36 - 48 tomato plants in the ground and 20 - 40 in containers ... usually 2 - 4 vines per variety.

I heavily amend the soil and my container mixes with organic composts of horse manure, horse stall bedding material, grass clippings, leaf mould, well-rotted wood chips (10 years old and older), with the addition of small amounts of agricultural limestone, chemical sourced granular fertilizer, Epsom salts, bone meal, ashes, Starbucks coffee grounds, and charcoal. My tomato bed soil is black, very loose textured and deep.

I mulch with wheat straw, grass clippings and leaf mould. Make sure your straw and grass clippings are free of broadleaf herbicides.

The only time I use watering solutions of fertilizers like Miracle Gro, Peters, Shultz, etc. is 1) a half-strength dose of high phosphorus (Bloom Booster) on the tomato seedlings at first true leaf stage (to introduce phosphorus for subsequent improved flower production), and 2) as follow-up half-strength doses of tomato or rose formula periodically throughout the growing season for the vines in containers (once every 10 days or so). The vines in containers also get one cup of 12-12-12, or similar, granules in the initial mix which itself is comprised of rotted bark fines and composted horse stall bedding, sand, native clay, ag. lime, etc. I fail too acknowledge a problem with using synthetic sourced fertilizers in container grown tomato vines.

I've had zero BER in the containers last 3 years. The only time I've had BER was when cultivating the root zone in the raised beds during green fruit development or in the case of containers, allowing the soil mix in the containers to dry out or get too hot and bake the roots. BER is a result of interupting or inhibiting the uptake of calcium by the roots, or an internal structural or genetic defect inhibiting the vine's ability to deliver calcium to the developing green fruit walls. Has nothing to do with fungus or chemical vs organic sourced nutrients, in my experience.

In addition to building up your garden soil heavily with organic (carbon) material, I believe tomatoes need a booster dose of nitrogen following green fruit set, periodic doses of phosphorus to stimulate greater flower production, ample potash, a pH in the 5.9 to 6.5 range, give or take, and the presence of micro-nutrients especially including iron, sulfur, calcium, magnesium and manganese in sufficient trace amounts. Whether the grower applies the nutrients as organic or synthetic sourced chemicals (they are "chemicals" either way), they had better be there in sufficient amounts and in water soluable form at the time of need or the vines will tell you where you failed them.


GGG

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by lorna-organic

Your opinion doesn't sway my opinion, Carolyn. I grow organically because I am chemically sensitive, as well as because I like to promote the natural order (aka nature). Chemical fertilizer (including MiracleGro) causes me physical pain and dysfunction, triggering my rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia. Many people in modern times suffer from autoimmune dysfunction, and it is not because of organic produce gardening.

Lorna, I was not trying to sway your opinion or the opinions of other folks here about Miracle Gro, a bag of triple 10 fertilizer or any other chemical fertilizer.

Far from that and I think you misread me completely.

What I was trying to do was to point out that there are situations such as I described where chemical fertilizers could and DO cause damage and that most likely that would not be the case in home grower gardens and gave the reasons why.

At no time did I say that I personally approved of chemical fertilizers and I very clearly said that I grow organically.

All I was trying to do was to confirm that there are some situations where chemical fertilizers do what many say they can do but were lerss likely to do so in a home garden and that was NOT a recommendation for use in a home garden.

Carolyn